With Such Words
if you aren't a hypocrite, your moral standards aren't high enough
Mansfield Park: Chapter 3 
6th-Jun-2013 09:10 pm
talibusorabat: A cartoon man thinks "Deep thoughts" (Avatar: Deep thoughts)
Chapter 2 discussion


I really feel for Sir Thomas. I feel like in many significant ways he's a single parent. (A wealthy single parent who can pay people to help him, but that's not quite the same as having a true partner in child rearing). He's a single parent who's also singularly unfit to be a parent.

I think this might also be one of the more frank discussions in Austen's work about money? Don't quote me on that, but while Austen has always written about class and money, but I don't recall such discussions of how estates got their money in other books. (I also feel a little teased... the mentions of the East Indies always make me think she's going to make some commentary on the British Empire, even though I know she's not going to. Ah, brains.)

As for Edmund... I think my ornery/contrary/tetchy streak is kicking in. His discussion with Fanny about her moving in with Mrs. Norris rubbed me the wrong way. No expressed sympathy for why she'd feel the way she did, no "I understand why you feel that way but think of it like this..." Just "Here's why what you're feeling is wrong and how you should feel about it." Which, I mean, worked for Fanny. She still felt comfortable enough with him to speak her own mind and her own feelings, so it's not even that his behavior was bad or at all offensive.

But if I were Fanny, I would have been fucking pissed about him telling me "You should feel ____." (Especially since he is so very wrong, and living with Mrs. Norris would have been deeply unpleasant for poor Fanny.)
Comments 
8th-Jun-2013 04:24 am (UTC)
tigerlily: Tara looking over her shoulder from Restless (Tara looking over her shoulder from Rest)
Yes, Edmund is acting like the rest of the family - and like how they all will act later. They all try hard to look good and respectable, so that if expressed feelings don't correspond to their image, it's a puzzle. And it doesn't help that Fanny can't, due to her situation and internalization, voice the biggest problem, which is Mrs. Norris' disdain of her. She can only talk about missing Edmund and the house, and how Mrs. Norris wouldn't like her because she isn't good enough.
8th-Jun-2013 06:18 pm (UTC)
talibusorabat: An Indian man with a piece of art & caption "A piece of art caused me to have an emotional reaction. Is that normal?" (P&R: Emotional reaction)
I feel like Fanny does bring up the real problem, but Edmund brushes it off.

"You know how uncomfortable I feel with her."

I can say nothing for her manner to you as a child; but it was the same with us all, or nearly so. She never knew how to be pleasant to children. But you are now of an age to be treated better; I think she is behaving better already; and when you are her only companion, you must be important to her."

The conversation then gets sidetracked into a discussion about Fanny's low self-esteem, but even if Fanny had asserted that Mrs. Norris doesn't like her, I don't think Edmund would have believed her, since he's under the impression that Mrs. Norris asked for Fanny to live with her.

With him, I don't think it's a matter of image; I feel like he's just emotionally dense. When he finds Fanny crying after she first arrives, he has to run through an entire list of things that might be bothering her before he finally hits upon she's homesick. Kindness and emotional intelligence don't go hand in hand.
8th-Jun-2013 11:38 pm (UTC)
tigerlily: Tara smiling (Tara smiling)
I think it's both. I mean, I think he gets what things are supposed to look like and doesn't see under that, so he doesn't factor in that there are things he doesn't see that contrast what's going on at the surface. He wouldn't understand or want to understand if Fanny told him Mrs. Norris was not good to her instead of voicing discomfort, even if she wanted to tell him. I think seeing nothing more than an image and feeling comfortable believing it means he has a natural resistance to truly listening to her.

Which is long way of saying I agree, he is dense!
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